Hello, welcome to all things AIR.

My name is Kieran Sheth and I'm a science communication and environmental justice intern for the U.S. Forest Service.

In this podcast, we dive into air quality, air control, and basically all things air.

From talking to different specialists in the air program to researchers, this is your outlet for the world around you.

In our third podcast episode, I am talking to Andrea Nick, an air resource specialist with the USDA Forest Service in the Pacific Southwest region and her vast expertise.

Well, I just wanted to start with a little bit on the background and the history of air quality because I know that you are an air resource adviser, but I do think that a lot of people don't know a lot about, you know, the history of air quality, especially from somebody who works in the industry's perspective.

So can you just give me some, background on that?

Yeah. So, California, and specifically the Los Angeles area, was one of the first areas in the country to regulate air quality.

There was a London, like, smog event that killed folks. And so I would say that London is actually probably the the first, city to regulate. But here in the United States, Los Angeles was. Mhmm. And they created the first air quality management district, which is still in existence today, which predates the Clean Air Act.

Okay. Wow. Yeah. That's a lot.

And how do you think that well, like, what has been, like, your experience with dealing with air quality and, you know, using that history to kind of further what you know right now?

Yeah. So and and, you know, so I mostly grew up in the Los Angeles, basin. Mhmm. And I vaguely remember as a kid having a couple of smog alert dates. You know, I didn't really, like, understand that as a child.

But at school, they wouldn't wanna let us, like, outside for recess. So I I vaguely kinda remember that.

I do remember some days where it was harder to see the mountains.

But, yeah, nothing nothing, like, even earlier.

I've spoken to people who, like, for example, I was working a fire, and I talked to one guy who said in the seventies, he worked at a fire station right next to the San Gabriel Mountains.

And one of his coworkers said, isn't it so great to work near the mountains? And his response was, what mountains? It was like, it was several months before he even saw them.

Oh my god.

Yeah. So we definitely have, you know, so LA doesn't still doesn't have fantastic air quality, but it is noticeably better since, since those earliest regulations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what were some of those early regulations that, were put on for, you know, helping air quality, let's say, like, in LA or places where it wasn't so great? Like, did it actually have, like, a substantial impact?

Or, like, how long did it take to see, like, a notable difference?

Yeah. So, you know, part of what drives the air quality issue in Los Angeles is just the amount of vehicles on the roads. Mhmm. So a big turning point was when catalytic converters were put onto, vehicles.

And now today, that's that's just standard. You know? In addition to having, you know, vehicles that are more, fuel efficient. The catalytic converter was the the largest, change.

And then, we switched a lot of our power plants to natural gas and then even, more recently to quick start natural gas. So that was another big kind of junk to help.

Mhmm.

And, kind of a third area of air quality issues is the, the the port.

So I I don't know the exact numbers, but I think the port of Los Angeles is either, like, the the largest or second largest freight in the country. So most of what's being imported comes through Los Angeles, and that also is another pressure along with just being, ringed around the basin with mountains really holds the pollution in.

Yeah. Definitely. So that's super interesting. I personally never knew about the the air quality in Los Angeles. And is that where you're, based right now? That's where you're working?

Yeah. So I'm actually based in, a place called Big Bear, which is a mountain town outside of the Los Angeles Basin.

Mhmm.

So I'm at about seven thousand feet in elevations.

And we definitely get pollution from LA, but there's there's a strong gradient. So as you go up the mountain and kind of on, onto the leeward side, so so that's kind of the rain shadow. There's a lot less pollution.

Mhmm.

And, you can definitely see that with particulate, but other pollutants such as ozone, that one is longer lived, and it transports further. And even in the early nineties, they found that some of the smog that they were seeing in the Grand Canyon had kind of a chemical footprint of, ozone from Los Angeles.

So so Oh my.

Yeah. So ozone can travel great distances.

Yeah. Oh, that's very, very evident of that.

And so as your role as an air resource adviser, kind of what is that like educating the public? Do you interact with the public directly?

Who do you provide, like, advice to, like, other corporations or stuff like that? Try to mitigate pollutions or middens or anything like that?

Yeah. So, as an air resource adviser, typically, I am working directly with the public. I can speak at public, public, information sessions for fires.

As far as, like, corporations, I'd say kind of the closest thing to that is, speaking with maybe, like, event, hosts. So for example, there's lots of marathons and outdoors, stuff like that that unfortunately can be impacted by smoke events.

Yep.

So just kinda making them aware of those resources. One of my kinda, like, most passionate thing to do is reach the youth.

Yep.

So I have gone and, while on wildfire assignments, go and talk to a whole I I think it was, like, every grade from kindergarten to to high school, in this one city.

And, I showed them my smoke monitor and and then kinda tailored my message for the age. So with the the younger kids, it was just like, this is smoke. You know, I'm monitored for smoke, and this is why we're concerned about it. And, just kind of explains that in very simple terms.

We're dealing with the older kids. It's like, here's, you know, more of the scientific information. And, so I've done that sort of stuff. And then here locally, when we do prescribed fires, same thing, set up the smoke monitor at the school and give the kids the opportunity to see it and kinda hear about what we're doing and why and how to protect themselves.

Yeah. Definitely. And do you think that interacting with the public, like, do you think that's the best part of the job?

I do because I think it can make a real difference. I've, you know, I've had one, woman one time came up to me, and she just thanks me because her husband had COPD, and she's very concerned about him and just having a a daily forecast and just information decide, you know, when to evacuate for the smoke and when they can maybe come back to their community. So that's an example where it can it can make a real difference for somebody who's particularly susceptible.

No. Yeah. For sure. And, you know, I think that also it's super important to also educate the younger generation and get them involved because, you know, through through this internship, I've found that, if you do so and if you try to get the younger generation involved and the people who in the future will be making our laws and, you know, basically governing our aspects of life in politics and such media, whatever it is. It's more important to get them in interested in something like the air quality and the air program because it has a direct impact on the health of their bodies and, you know, the health of other people.

Yes.

And and, you know, unfortunately, they're also the ones that are probably going to be most, impacted in their lifetime just based on Right.

You know, what we're finding out about climate change and emissions, from forests. And, extensive research was done, and actually rolled into some of the forest plans about the existing missions from the Sierra Nevadas.

And it's, it and we're starting to see it already, you know, these huge wildfires and Mhmm.

Smoke impacts that are just kinda off the charts. And, you know, that's not that's forecasted to continue at least for the near future until we're able to reduce our emissions.

Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. And, you know, it's it's more important than ever to do so and educate them.

So another question that I had for you.

So in that same kind of realm is I know that you're very into, you know, like the national parks and, you know, preserving, a lot of the places that are protected in the United States. So I was wondering how specifically do you use your knowledge on air quality to, you know, protect national parks or, you know, those places that should be protected by the government?

Yeah. So the most direct way would be to first, you know, reintroduce fire to ecosystems that were, evolved within. Mhmm. So, you know, locally in Big Bear, we we have stands of mixed conifer that historically maybe had fire as, well, definitely about every twelve years, but maybe even as frequent as every fire, you know, the consequence of that is smoke. You know, fire, you know, the consequence of that is smoke.

But if we can prepare the community, you know, give them the tools of forecasting and, make them knowledgeable on where they can get the current condition information, that helps with that, so that they can do the things they need to do, whether that's leave town for a day, you know, do your shopping in the city today, or just I mean, you know, a lot of people here don't have air conditioning, myself included. And, typically, what we do is we open up all the windows at night to let in the cool air and then just shut shut it all in the morning and keep that cool air inside.

Well, if there's a lot of smoke, you're not gonna wanna do that.

You're probably better off just kinda dealing with a warmer night.

Yep.

So yeah. So giving people the that, you know, that sort of information and increasing the comfort with what we're doing and why we're doing it. Right. Because that that's how we can help save what we have out there for future generations.

Right. And I think, like, honestly, like, that's, like, all you can really do. You, you know, you can do your best to try to educate people and get them involved. And after that, it's kinda, like, up to their own volition, I guess.

But, you know, I think it's great. Yeah. I think it's great that you're doing that in your role as, like, an area resource adviser is still, like, paramount. And I've realized, like, how important it is, like, throughout this internship. So I know it's obviously, it's great to see that, come into action and see it, in action also.

And Yeah.

That's really great.

And then I was wondering what's the most important lesson that you've learned for your time working in California and for the air program and agency?

Well, you know, I I could say so lately, I've been really focusing on smoke, but, one thing with air quality is that it's not it's not just smoke.

There's other ecosystem impacts. Mhmm.

We know in the LA Basin that we've lost something like eighty percent of all lichen species.

Wow.

And that's just due to to, you know, air pollution that we have.

And, how we know that is that there was a physician in the late eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds that just as a hobby, he would collect species of lichen in the area.

And, UC Riverside, so University of California Riverside, still has those samples, and you cannot find those species anymore.

Really?

Yeah. So we so we know that there's that. Then there's other impacts.

So nearby me is Joshua Tree National Park. And the nitrogen deposition, so that's molecules of nitrogen falling out of the air.

You know, so all the pollution depositing on the ground, and that has facilitated the spread of invasive grasses, which means that it's now easier for the desert to burn.

Yep.

And Joshua trees didn't really evolve with those conditions, so now they're threatened. And that's, you know, another unique plant community that we have in California that we obviously would like to keep.

Yeah. And go ahead.

Oh, and I was just gonna say, another, example, and I don't I don't know the exact time frame, but, the smog in Los Angeles for a while was so bad that it actually was damaging plant crops growing in the basin. Really? And yeah.

And they didn't you know, it wasn't really known what it was at first, so they called it disease x.

Mhmm.

And and we've seen this even in pine trees, chloride sorry. I can't pronounce it.

It's it's speckles on the pine needles, due to ozone.

And so we think we've also lost the most sensitive genotypes within the LA Basin.

So we might still have that species, but we probably lost genetic diversity Yeah.

Of those more sensitive, plants to ozone. So there's just a whole host of the way that air quality can affect, you know, us and our ecosystems.

For sure. Like, that's actually insane, like, to hear all of those examples.

And do you guys, like, do you guys work with other departments to protect, like, endangered plants or anything like that? Or is it just like a byproduct or, like, in conjunction with something else?

Yeah.

So, certain folks in our program are more involved, with those sort of activities than myself.

Mhmm.

So we do have somebody who goes out and collects, like, in species in the wilderness to determine, you know, what the effects are. And, you know, in certain areas, that's great because they're remote.

Right.

We don't have monitoring equipment there, and we can kind of figure out what their pollution exposure is. So we have other folks to do that.

One thing that's unique about the Clean Air Act is that it gives the federal land manager, ability to comment on large industrial sources.

Mhmm.

So, when power plants have changed their equipment in the LA Basin, they they submit to me, basically, documentation of, the effects of that, equipment and, you know, to trying to determine if there's going to be impacts on our on the visibility of our local wildernesses. And that's one of the few areas that the forest service can, you know, make make a difference off of forest service land.

That's actually that's insane. And, also, I was also wondering, I saw that, you know, you had a personal interest in the Dust Bowl also.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like, I'm also very interested in that kind of period of time because I think, you know, the Dust Bowl happened in, like, the 1920s. Right? Or nineteen 1930s.

Yes. 1930s. So, you know, I feel like at that time everything that that could go wrong in our country went wrong. We hit the Great Depression. The Dust Bowl kind of wiped all of the crops away. So, you know, how did you get into, you know, that personal interest of, like, the Dust Bowl and kind of how has it influenced, where you are right now, I guess?

Yeah. That's a great question. So, also I remember is that it just kind of fascinated me, and I, I probably because I also enjoy Steinbeck's writing, and he wrote a lot of novels based on that time period.

Mhmm.

And, I was, like, at a bookstore, and I picked up a book called The Worst Hard Times.

Yeah.

I think that's yeah.

By author.

Really great book. I read it and was just, like, fascinated.

And, when I was an undergrad, there came there came in one of my classes, I don't even remember which class it was, but I do distinctly remember which professor.

We were able to do an extra credit project.

And so I consequences of, you know, like, a a more modern test ball.

And, so that just it just really, like, fascinated me and I talked about, so, like, another issue we have that's actually spreading is, what we call valley fever, which is I've heard of that.

Yeah. Let me see if I can say it. Coccidiolycosis, is is the the organism that causes valley fever, and it's typically it's it's most frequent in, in the Central Valley and farming communities, but it's it's not limited to there. I remember somewhat a couple years ago, a firefighter contracting it by, you know, digging in the ground to create fire lines and actually passed away from it.

So it is a serious Wow.

Health concern if you're exposed.

But yeah. So I just did this presentation on that. And afterwards, the professor was like, you seem very interested. Like, would you be interested in an air quality, like, field, you know, profession after school.

And I actually was like, no. That sounds terrible.

And it wasn't until probably, like, five or six years later that I did find myself in the air program.

Wow.

That's a It's I was already a go.

Oh, I was just gonna say. So it took me a little while to come around to, like, oh, yes. This would probably be a a good field for me to to pursue.

Well, it's great that you found your calling and that you're having a great time here. Is there anything else that you wanna share that I haven't asked you yet?

I I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's any but I I'm sorry. I totally blanked.

It's all good. It's all good. Well, those are all the questions that I have, but I also wanted to thank you so much today for taking out the time to come and speak with me today. It was a great conversation, and I had so much fun listening to you and hearing your experiences. It was amazing.

Great. Thank you. Yeah. It was great to share and just talk about things I'm passionate about. So thank you.

That concludes the third podcast in this series. Thank you so much to all who listened, and thank you to Andrea for taking the time to speak with me. We will see you next time on All Things Air.